thinking about the sacraments
very good 10 min clip of Tom Wright talking about the sacraments. His point is that there must be a blend of the Word and the sacrament. There needs to be proper explanation of what the sacrament means - just as the Jews explain the story of Passover (notably in the present tense) to their children each year.
Some Christian traditions major on the Word and de-emphasise the sacramental while others do the opposite with all sorts of elaborate ritual but only a mumbled explanation of what is going on.
It raises important questions for us in apres church about how we could celebrate communion for example in a cafe context. How to strike the right balance of Word and Sacrament, with deed and explanation and all with the proper reverence. If anything we have swung too far to Word and have left out the sacramental in our meetings. I’d love to hear how you think we could incorporate it into what we do - a more experiential and tangible expression to our worship.
Could we do communion in Caffe Nero? How would it be done?
Yes. Give each other some bread then some wine and think about Jesus sacrifice for us, maybe thank Him. Some churches worry about what from of words should we use? Do we pray? If so how? How much “reverence” do we give the process? Should we bless the bread and wine? Does it actually become the flesh and blood of Jesus?
I certainly don’t have enough theological knowledge about this so I stand to be corrected but my gut instinct is that Jesus wanted us to remember what He did for us when we eat together - do this in rememberence of me - I’m not sure He was too concerned about the ritual or the process. In fact His command to “do this in rememberence” is not mentioned in three gospels. I think words and form and ritual are irrelevant - He knows our hearts. In fact He probably hates the ritual in some churches - it seems that going through the ritual for some people is enough, box ticked.
I think we should do it in Apres Church but lets make it a natural thing, not forced or artificial.
I miss the sacraments. They really help me to forget myself a moment and think about God. The words, the tradition are very meaningful to me.
It’s funny though because I was thinking about the whole communion thing on Sunday at Apres and then talked about it at work on Monday. It struck me as quite meaningful when Joe went and bought a muffin towards the end and then we all handed it around and had a bit. It was powerful in that a) Joe had managed to SHARE a bit of his muffin!!! and b) we all had a bit and everyone felt included.
So maybe we don’t need bread and wine. Maybe we need a muffin and some camomile tea but the important thing is that we think of Jesus and we feel grateful and we feel a little bit of unity in our little group. I think a bit of ritual is amazingly powerful.
Excellent couple of posts- much to think about, particularly in the context of our ‘missing the point about being postmodern’ debates. I tend to agree about the slight over-emphasis on ‘word’, in that what is really necessary- regardless of labels such as ‘modern’, ‘postmodern’, ‘Catholic’ and ‘Protestant’ (and we protest the protest)- is that we experience and worship God.
This will always be a mysterious experience- words only go so far. But we must be careful not to have ‘a form of godliness but deny its power.’
As Ephesians 1:18 says: ‘I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you…and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead…’
Let us not be suffocated by dead words and works but revolutionised by contact with the Living Word.
I am not one for empty ritual as you know but to counter Malcs point a bit, I think there is more to the sacrament than just a mental process of remembering. I don’t think I would go as far as transubstantiation (where the bread is believed to actually become flesh in some sense) however I think there is something deeper and sacred at work here than just eating bread and drinking wine. I do think there is a spiritual transaction, a communion with God that is special. In the same way I believe that baptism involves more than just a declaration and getting wet. I think some business is done in the spiritual realm when someone is baptised. I think modern church has often lost this aspect of the sacraments and certainly the house church movement has often taken it too casually in my view, to our loss. I’m not advocating elaborate ritual per se but as Tom Wright says, there is more to this than just explaining in words. As Alex says, there is a mystery here and words are not enough. Have a look at what Paul says in Corinthians - especially about having a worthy attitude towards communion:
1 Corinthians 11:17-33 (New International Version)
17In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other.
This is something I’ve been doing a bit of thinking about, and Darren has asked me to stick my tuppence worth into the thoughts, even though the rest of you don’t know me (I go to Darren’s dad’s church in Devon)…
The deal, as far as I can get it, is that both baptism and communion are a set of words and actions that are more than the sum of their parts…when you throw in the Holy Spirit and God’s grace something slightly inexplicable happens and if you try to nail it down too much you’ll just end up missing out another part of it.
So in terms of baptism, I’m pretty sure (as Darren commented) something happens on a spiritual level, at some point, but I’m also pretty sure that its not the immersion/dipping/sprinkling (or however else you manage to baptise someone) that actually does the ’something’…so its not just a symbolic gesture, but equally its not a magic trick.
When that translates to communion there is the remembering thing as Malc mentioned- a massive part of things, but there is also aspects of thanksgiving to God, plus something about coming together in a way that is almost prophetic of what we believe God is going to eventually bring about- a shared table where all are welcomed and shown love is something that Jesus was fairly big on, and in a sense thats what communion is.
The point about word and sacrament getting too distant from one another is that when we engage our brains to think about Christianity, we can often disengage our hearts from being affected by Christ… a context that relies too heavily on one or the other will lose out: if we are too intellectual we lose the unexpectedness and the mystery, if we are too symbolic and intuitive we can become incomprehensible.
On that point, darren only asked me for a short comment, and its nearly midnight so i’ll stop there are give people a chance to come back to me.
Whats really interesting to me about this is that it seems as if house churches and emerging churches are really beginning to think about what sacraments might look like in their context, and this can be done by engaging with the theology (which often differs from the practice) of the pre-existing churches, and i’d really encourage guys to think about this…its something that i’ve got more into as i’ve spent time reading and thinking about it, and God has shown me some cool stuff in places and things i would never have expected.
G’night
As I said, I am not a theologian or even remotely knowledgable about the bible (so maybe I shouldn’t comment on these posts) but are these Corinthians references to do with the culture of the time? I don’t see the relevance of: “21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in?” Was this a literal reference to their behaviour or metaphorical. I mean I don’t think I have ever seen anyone in Church doing the above when we have taken communion.
Sorry if I offended in the previous post. I am certainly not advocating a casual observance of communion and definitely not a “mental process of remembering” and I feel a bit aggrieved about that conclusion. I’m crap at explaining myself - people always seem to get the wrong end of the stick.
I think we should go deeper somehow and my previous experiences of religious observances have prevented this. Which is what I meant previously. Isn’t taking communion in a worthy manner to do with examining ourselves and realising what the bread and wine represent?
Should we also clear the slate with each other first? The bible exhorts us to go and sort things out if we are aware that anyone has anything against us. This needs thinking about because it doesn’t say “if you have offended someone, sort it out with them”. There is a subtle but profound difference between the two.
Malc- the bad news is that you are a theologian, cos you think about God and people in a meaningful way, but hey, there are some ok theologians out there, so don’t fret it.
I agree with Marjie that ritual can be immensely powerful, but it can also be empty (which is where I think Malc’s concerns, and certainly mine, lie), and thats where the link between word and sacrament comes in- knowing what is being done, and what its meaning can turn the ritual into something meaningful and powerful…
the Corinthians ref is, as far as I read it, about both actual behaviour (not being greedy/excluding others type stuff) but also could be read as saying something about how communion is done: without consideration for others, never bothering with it, elevating its significance etc… not totally sure about this, its something that just struck me as I read your post.
I think your point about ‘religious observance’ and going deeper is key- if we are just observing something with communion, we aren’t really involved in it, and so whatever spiritual business God is up to may well pass us by. One of the images used to describe communion is the unity of the body of Christ- clearing the slate with each other and God is definitely involved here.
We were having a chat at work this morning about preparing ourselves for worship- something that most of us are rubbish at, but essentially thats what most of a time of worship that leads towards communion is doing, but there are loads of ways that preparation can be done.
I think there could be a place for communion in a cafe, but I in order to ‘clear my slate’ I would need some time to be still and really hear from the Holy Spirit to check the state of my heart. I think this can come down to how you hear from God. I hear from God best when out walking on my own in nature, but others hear better while reading or with others. Maybe I should just do this beforehand!
I agree with Andy D that the sacraments are a set of words and actions that are more than the sum of their parts. By partaking in communion we also become part of the magnitude of the event that is the passion. The passion (life, death and resurrection of Christ) means that death is defeated and the Kingdom of God (new world order of peace under Jesus’ government ) is available to us now.
The Eucharist is an act that reminds us of Christ’s sacrifice, but we become complicit in the change this has brought and we become agents of this change through the Holy Spirit.
I think words are important when taking communion. This is basically so that we don’t forget what we are doing - my mind does wander easily. I’d prefer to say the words Jesus said at the Last Supper (or what translators have suggested in various verses), in that this arguably brings us closer to the original meaning/act.
Any thoughts?
Food for thought.